RSW

On all of the other related threads I have seen, including some of the independent technical analysis of the fault there has been no indication that the component when replaced is materially different, I think the part number changed slightly but analysis of that implied it was fundamentally the same system part(s). I am inclined to agree with Mark2, whether its something about the design and implementation around the system and the load upon it that causes it to eventually fail and or a design flaw within the component that with constant loading results at some point in a failure of its ability to charge the 12v battery, it simply doesn't look like Audi intend to proactively identify the true root cause(s) and implement a fix upon which a recall is initiated. It seems they have taken the path (think this was discussed further back in the thread) of letting the customers and dealerships deal with the issue at point of failure and simply replace the part under an extended warranty scheme. No doubt they will have some level of contractual coverage with the component supplier themselves. It's plausible as they focus more on their ev range that they don't want to put time and money on a system and component set that may be considered part of vehicle ranges they will ultimately sunset (speculation only, but plausible). Of course the issue with that is that ultimately it is the consumer that suffers the consequences. They may be able to currently defend their position by pointing to an extended warranty and willingness to repair, but if someone gets hurt or worse as a consequence of being put in harms way by this failure then I suspect things will change very quickly. Will be interesting to see how the class action in the US unfolds and what follows that. MikeyW, regarding the question of whether they fix the issue when replacing the component, the burden of evidence kicking around would imply that they don't. Seems they replace it like for like, inadvertently resetting the countdown for when it will re-occur and there are some theories out their on how to extend that time such as disabling the stop-start each journey via engine sport modes etc. Earlier this year I asked for confirmation as to whether they had identified the root cause and identified an appropriate fix (as opposed to like for replacement) to this specific failure in writing as a condition of completing a purchase of a C8 with one of the largest Audi dealerships in the UK and they wouldn't do it as they said Audi UK didn't recognise it as an issue requiring recall or otherwise. Predictably I was fobbed off with the usual " it is rare and we haven't seen many'. Sadly that it is why I cancelled mine. If interested in the new performance version (a beauty!), if it were me, as a condition of sale I would ask the dealer to confirm in writing via Audi UK that they have changed the implementation and or component in a way that fixes the root cause of the failure. I don't think they will do that, but it is worth a go.

Hello Mikey W, sorry to hear that you’ve endured this fault multiple times, but glad you have managed to get to safety on each occasion. Sounds like Mark2 in so far as you now know what to do when the early warning signs arise, seems insane that this is something that has to be back of mind on what in many respects is meant to be one of their flagship vehicles. Having watched a Panorama programme on our Smart Motorways yesterday (not Smart just deadly it seems!) it continues to alarm me that this is a dangerous fault when coupled with the above. Audi need to be doing more as you will have seen discussed in above posts. i haven’t seen anything on other related forum threads yet that indicates the replacement repair is a root cause fix, so likely it is simply a like for like replacement. Sounds to me like you should be pushing for a much more suitable vehicle and via Audi UK and asking them to sort that immediately. Ultimately Audi UK know this is an issue and should if pursued react more empathetically to assist you with a replacement vehicle etc. I believe Mark2 has had some success with Audi UK in getting a better response support wise while the car is off the road being repaired etc Good luck

Think I would be taking a similar view to you Mark2 if I was in one already particularly given the cars capabilities and aesthetics and the understanding you now have of the early signs of the issue and what to do. Feel for those out there who won’t. Before I decided to cancel I did look at getting an in car OBD scanner to surface a status on the 12v battery via a mobile app, through to having a 12v back up unit. What swung it for me in the end in part was the disappointing (sadly not unsurprising) response from Audi to very considered and sensible asks from folks like yourself, Cally and others on similar threads. It was also the thought that if it did happen the repair if like for like wouldn’t signal the end of it. I think that’s what made me decide against in the end. Still gutted every time I see one - fine looking car, impressive capabilities! I guess key at this point is to keep the pressure up on Audi - they owe it existing and future customers to step up and sort this. Having seen their responses to you (genuinely thanks for sharing) and others, I now don’t believe they will take the initiative and tackle this until it gets broadcast air time with a consumer rights protection group. My only hope is that it isn’t a tragic incident that crystallises such coverage and a material response. Will let you know what comes of the Which dialogue.

Barron - that’s largely how I came across this thread. I had reserved an RS6 C8 to replace my RS4. The evening before I was due to go in and complete the paper work I was looking at recalls for the model and started seeing threads in the US about this MHEV 48/12 v related issue and the class action lawsuit. I came across this thread and asked Mark2 about his experience and whether Audi were fixing it or replacing like for like. Mark2 was kind enough to keep sharing his journey with Audi on this issue and as you can see it’s not been an easy one, with the most common theme being one of no clear and decisive responses to clear questions from the likes of Mark2 and Cally. Agree on the echo chamber point, I was mindful of that so did pay for independent advice from two working Audi technicians and while they were careful in what they said they both indicated they had seen quite a few examples on a number of different models with this system including the RS6 C8. They both thought it was a bigger issue than was being acknowledged by Audi UK albeit the 7year warranty extension speaks for itself. Recently after seeing many more examples of this on other threads and the unwillingness of Audi to act I cancelled my order as I couldn’t have driven my kids on any of the “smart motorways” that surround where we live with the spectre of this issue in the back of my mind. Mindful failures happen, punctures, blow outs etc but this issue and they way it unfolds in terms of car shut down once the 12v battery is depleted is just too potentially dangerous especially with how it affects simple things like hazards and central locking etc. I did ask the main dealer to provide a clarification on the fault, any plans for root cause fix / recall but they were dismissive and played it down. For what it’s worth a lot of vehicles now have this mild hybrid set up to help meet emissions regs. No idea if it’s failing in similar ways on equivalent BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches etc or just a particularly bad implementation in the Audi. On my searches I have read a few tech reviews on the failure that point to it being a coolant leak inside system as well as certain key circuit board components getting cooked - not sure if that’s linked to poor heat sink design or inadequate cooling, or the coolant leak leading to component failure through heat etc. I have also looked at the M3 touring and couldn’t see the same issue in my searches but I am very mindful that the G81 hasn’t been on the road as long as the C8. As much as I love the RS4 and wanted the C8 the M3 touring G81 is likely the path I’ll take.

Good to hear huw8000 ref it being dealt with by an Audi dealer. Sadly they rarely make it easy because the warranty team at the dealer usually have a lot of hoops to get through with Audi group on claims, but you should get to the right outcome with the 7year cover if it is the MHEV alternator element. Think your 30 day point is certainly worthy of consideration, legally you have that protection, how easy the seller would make that is another matter of course, but definately one to consider. The fact that it’s been replaced before on your car goes to the heart of earlier discussions on this thread. They know it’s an issue hence 7 year warranty, but rather than ensure the fix that replaces the unit actually corrects the root cause, it appears to be like for like, so you reset the clock and hope. The least they could do is ensure a recall for a software release update which includes a 12v charge warning and instruction to find somewhere safe to pull over in order to give customers a chance to get to safety before full shut down. Unfortunately they appear to be currently hiding behind the lack of any safety regs mandating the need to do that. Mark2 has been pursuing this - let’s hope they wake up and see common sense on what is actually a genuinely dangerous fault. Trouble is far too often these big companies lack common sense and customer orientation and fall back on their PR and legal teams regarding how to contain issue brand protection wise and do the minimum expense wise. Good luck

Sorry to hear that huw800, glad you were able to get off the road before the 12v was fully depleted. Without knowing the terms of the 3rd party warranty hard to be definitive, be surprised if it isn’t covered as it’s a key component, no doubt they will clarify quickly enough. It should certainly be covered by the Audi 7 year warranty for the MHEV 48/12v system which as I understood it is simply an extension of the manufacturers warranty for that specific component set. Cally and Mark2 will be able to clarify as they have had to deal with this specific nightmare failure as you will have seen above. Are you taking the car to a local Audi dealer for the repair? That might be your best bet as while they will often try and push you back to the seller (if non Audi), the reality is this is failure of a manufacturer’s component that should be covered under the 7 year extended manufacturers warranty. Even if the Audi service centre does wrangle with your third party warranty provider to begin with, ultimately you should be able to get them focused on addressing this by pulling on the Audi manufacturers extended warranty for the MHEV 48/12v. Also I wouldn’t hesitate to pursue the Audi UK route in line with the contacts Mark2 wrote to. Good luck, no way should you be paying for this absolutely appalling and dangerous defect.

That’s really well framed and articulated Mark2, common sense would indicate that they shouldn’t ignore such a clear explanation of the risks especially when backed up with Cally’s experience. I dread to Imagine how many more examples there are out there. Let’s hope they wake up to this and stop playing the predictable game of placating / empathising - it’s covered by warranty nonsense, and actually do something material to develop the warning you describe. At a software dev level I don’t get why they won’t just get on with it given the risks, irrespective of whether regs have caught up and mandate the need for it. They know how this fault has the potential to unfold so should really be assigning it to the development teams as an escalated priority to be included for development/integration and test in a specified release. They should then back that with a mandated recall to ensure the specified release update is applied to vehicles with this system. I bet the 12v battery charge level can be checked via an OBD scanner, if it can then they really have no excuse as that says the telemetry data is available but needs exposing via their in car GUI as a warning when it drops below a threshold and no charging is detected. Less hopeful side of me suspects it’s the air time with a consumer watchdog that will finally invoke material action on their part when they start worrying about the brand damage of being seen to let customers play Russian roulette with this fault and our not so smart “Smart Motorways” (or any road for that matter with this fault!).

Cally, definitely good avenues to pursue - the potential for disaster here plus your story alone should be enough to get some interest from those consumer groups. Sadly seems that this is what will be needed to get Audi to react differently.

Cally, that’s a dreadful situation to find yourself in, simply dangerous for anyone to have to experience that, every parent’s nightmare as well. I’m going to reach out to Which and see whether or not they are willing to take a consumer safety orientated approach to looking into this and related cases and the way in which Audi are allowing customers to deal with this dangerous failure when it occurs by simply hiding behind warranty extensions and existing regs regarding the absence of a need to give customers at the very least an early warning for the 48/12v MHEV system when it is beginning to fail etc. Will post here if i get anywhere with that.

@ JASE RS6 I imagine that’s linked to not making any statement that could provide evidence in the US Class action and of course a want to avoid premature expense. I would be unambiguous with your dealership that this specific component is known to fail hence the extended 7yr warranty that started stateside and is now applicable in the U.K. I spoke to two Audi technicians independently on a paid for advice service and they were both careful in their responses but effectively confirmed that they had seen a number of these failures across a number of Audi models with the 48/12v MHEV system including RS6/7 examples. They said they felt it was certainly an emerging issue but one that is not yet recognised by Audi UK as a fault warranting recall. The fact that they extended the warranty in the US and now the U.K. on this system set speaks for itself. good luck

Sorry to hear about that JASENRS6. Agree with ASHA12, remapping has no impact on this increasingly well documented fault. Mark2 may be able to offer some advice given his experience with this issue, dealings with the dealership and Audi UK. Part of the issue here is the warranty claims team will do what they can to push back on the dealership. There is always the question of legally what is defendable given the terms and conditions of a warranty and associated grey areas vs the question of what they will do ref brand protection in terms of how much of a fuss you are prepared to make and how. Given how expensive and time consuming the former can be I would start with the latter, make it clear to the dealership you are clear the remapping has no relevance to the root cause for this known fault, that you are prepared to put some serious time into their social media presence to highlight the case and your treatment and put together a suitably polite but reasonable request to Audi UK execs (Mark2 should be able to highlight who to focus on given his experience). Good luck - Audi should be ashamed of this fault, not fully root causing and fully fixing via a recall.

Fair enough Jason. Thanks for the points, they are all clear and I understand them given that the manufacturer will certainly take a very considered legal position on any questions or responses to any consumer watchdog like investigation. My only hope is that something sensible is done before such a failure puts someone in harms way.

Of course. Suspect it would be relatively straight forward to source examples of this failure which would go some way to moving such an investigation safely away from unsupported hypothesis. Also such an investigation wouldn’t need to draw conclusions (their lawyers would be all over what could/couldn't be said etc), it would simply need to point to example cases and put reasonable questions to the manufacturer in the public domain that push on the issue. That’s broadly the nature of such consumer watchdog investigations from what I have seen over the years. You seem very keen to highlight the legal dimensions here, when that’s not the only way to solicit a more customer orientated response from the manufacturer for those impacted by this particular issue. Wondering if you work in said manufacturers PR/legal dep. Either way thanks for your legal points - no further guidance required.

Thanks J. Clear that what happens legally in the US won’t apply in the UK. How it plays out however may galvanise some in the UK who experience this issue to take a legal course of action. Whether that’s wise/likely to be successful or not etc in soliciting development of a suitable proactive fix and or warning feature is another matter. Not accepting liability as no default has occurred wasn’t what I was pushing on exactly. I guess if I am a little more precise what I meant was that it appears current legislation in the UK in this area doesn’t yet reflect consideration of the potential safety risks of the 48/12v MHEV system, its implementation, safeguards in the event of failure etc. Not unusual to see legislation trail technology developments I guess. Either way this is a potentially dangerous issue on these vehicles and it appears (though I don’t claim to have trawled the applicable statutes and language) that it is not accounted for in existing statutes and their underpinning primary / secondary legislation. The fact that a company isn’t currently legally obliged to address this issue, doesn’t mean that on balance -when becoming aware of the potential consequences- that it shouldn’t. Wishful thinking on that point I guess. Hypothetically speaking, perhaps a successful UK case that highlights the safety risks in the event of failure would help address what looks to be a gap in existing statutes. I have no idea if that would end up being addressed in some secondary legislation -regulation, order- made under the authority of the appropriate Act. I respectfully defer to those legally trained and qualified on all that! Better still a decent bit of journalistic investigation and air time on something like watchdog might nudge the manufacturer into a moment of customer orientated care and action. May be wishful thinking again. . .

Seems like this is part of the issue, the emission regs that in part have led to manufacturers introducing systems like the 48/12V MHEV aren't matched by safety regs that consider the risk of poor implementations - lack of redundancy, driver warning etc in the event off failure, especially given the way this one unfolds consequences wise. I suspect that there will be broader pieces of existing legislation region by region that cover a manufacturers duty of care if they become aware of an issue that has significant - albeit unintended- safety consequences. Plausible that this is in part what the US Class Action case will push on. Either way it's not great that Audi seem to be prepared to let customers spin the wheel! Having read some of the examples behind the US litigation they are pretty unpleasant, cars effectively becoming bricked after 10-20 mins with not even enough charge to operate hazard lights. @Mark2 glad to hear they paid your tow fees, least they could do. Perhaps this is one to push to Which or one of the other UK consumer rights programmes like watchdog to put a a bit more of a sense of urgency into Audi on at least a warning feature. Nothing galvanises corp responses like a spot on Watchdog!