Audi aims to go all electric by 2030

[Steve Q]

Audi have announced that by 2030 they intend for all their models to be electric. This will start next year with the electric crossover and then an electric sports car. Audi also intend to improve the infrastructure for electric cars  by increasing the number of charging stations across the US and Europe in preparation for their electric models. This will rival Tesla's similar charging system. 

His the link for more info: 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.digitaltrends.com/cars/audi-peter-mertens-interview-electrification-plan/amp/

Cheers

Steve 

[Lightsout79]

The problem with electric cars is the sheer amount of fossil fuels that you have to use to mine the materials , not to mention coal furnaces to extract what you need from the ore !

Google Lithium mines and you will see what I mean, the best from of car power supply would be nuclear not electric.

[Steve Q]

8 hours ago, Lightsout79 said:

The problem with electric cars is the sheer amount of fossil fuels that you have to use to mine the materials , not to mention coal furnaces to extract what you need from the ore !

Google Lithium mines and you will see what I mean, the best from of car power supply would be nuclear not electric.

I agree electric cars arnt the future I think hydrogen cars are though. 

[Beezil]

On 29/10/2017 at 12:57 AM, Lightsout79 said:

The problem with electric cars is the sheer amount of fossil fuels that you have to use to mine the materials , not to mention coal furnaces to extract what you need from the ore !

Google Lithium mines and you will see what I mean, the best from of car power supply would be nuclear not electric.

Trouble is, this issue with indirect environmental costs has been with us for years.

 

Back when catalytic converters started to get used (compulsory in the UK in 1992 but fitted to a number of cars before then), many rare metals had to be dug out of the ground to go into the cat unit. Being an ex-mechanic, I know this was being discussed by us lowly grease monkeys in the late 90s, and sadly I doubt anything has changed since then and also doubt there is any effective system in place to help remove these metals from scrapped cat-converters before they get crushed.

 

Having also worked in the car fleet industry 15ish years ago and being involved in the alternative fuel/dualfuel fleet being operated by the fleet company I worked for, I found it impossible to get a real-life figure of what it cost environmentally to produce an electric vehicle compared to the regular petrol or diesel variant of the same vehicle (which is actually a pretty efficient way of manufacturing nowadays as they've had a hundred years or so to get good at it).  And don't even try to get an "end-of-life" destruction cost to the environment from a manufacturer, as they don't want to embarrass themselves.

[Steve Q]

1 hour ago, Beezil said:

Trouble is, this issue with indirect environmental costs has been with us for years.

 

Back when catalytic converters started to get used (compulsory in the UK in 1992 but fitted to a number of cars before then), many rare metals had to be dug out of the ground to go into the cat unit. Being an ex-mechanic, I know this was being discussed by us lowly grease monkeys in the late 90s, and sadly I doubt anything has changed since then and also doubt there is any effective system in place to help remove these metals from scrapped cat-converters before they get crushed.

 

Having also worked in the car fleet industry 15ish years ago and being involved in the alternative fuel/dualfuel fleet being operated by the fleet company I worked for, I found it impossible to get a real-life figure of what it cost environmentally to produce an electric vehicle compared to the regular petrol or diesel variant of the same vehicle (which is actually a pretty efficient way of manufacturing nowadays as they've had a hundred years or so to get good at it).  And don't even try to get an "end-of-life" destruction cost to the environment from a manufacturer, as they don't want to embarrass themselves.

I have to agree, the environmental costs of building "green" cars I think is being brushed under the carpet, so to speak. I can't see how shopping the raw materials around the world to build a car is environmentally friendly to be honest! 

[Lightsout79]

So basically the best way to stay environmentally friendly is to maintain and service your car as long as you possibly can, until it really is beyond repair , the amount of cars I have seen scrapped that had a good few years left in them is astounding , I am currently doing up a 2005 Corolla 1.4 vvti , all that was wrong with it was horn never worked - Cleaned connection , replaced a rusty wishbone, couple of tyres , some brake pipes replaced , quite a few but actually a doddle when you have the correct tools, front discs and pads , cleaned up rear brakes and replaced a brake backing plate, wipers and hey presto an mot'd corolla in good nic with only 78k on the clock.

Paid 100 for the car , spent about 300-350, have a buyer lined up for 900,

[Steve Q]

I'm the same I normally.run old cars. I've got the a6 and a 1993 Ford escort :) 

[Trevor]

I have heard the debate for alternative fuel sources to environmentally power the motor car for about 35 years now and guess what?  It's still no closer to where it was all that time ago.

Years ago we had LPG as a contender which in reality is not too bad as it is a very clean burning fuel....incidentally, the manufacturers and researchers are discussing the use of Range Extenders which could be powered by LPG...so full circle I think.

Full electromotive power....I think not, where's the electricity coming from. In the UK, not a chance! In the Nordic countries who are completely set up with producing electricity from Wind, Wave, Solar, etc....yes it can work.

Diesel....the manufacturers have now designed the new Euro 6 range of engines and exhaust after-treatment to become as eco-friendly as a petrol engine (almost) and this has cleaned the 'dirty diesels' act up for the remaining future of this power source.

Petrol, no problem....unless it's running badly or on open loop on start up but generally very efficient. Incidentally, the most efficient petrol engine is a race engine as it combusts to produce maximum power and extract full calorific content of the fuel leaving very little emissions.

Hybrid....now you're talking!  probably the most efficient power source for a motor car. However, the manufacturers are now dropping their hybrid programme systematically to go to full plugin Electric Vehicles. Why???

Hydrogen...not while there are oil fields out there providing oil for refining and running power stations. Sad but true!

Attended a lecture by one of the Directors of BMW and he stated that their petrol and diesel engines would run into the next 10-12 years with no need to switch to EV. He also stated that autonomous cars will not ever likely be run in most countries unless there is a completely new build city to factor this in. Although they are producing full EV vehicles and supporting infrastructure for charging, it is still a problem with charge range, although this is also improving over time.

So, watch this space....meanwhile, I'll still enjoy both Petrol and Diesel until they take them from my cold dead hand 

[Beezil]

2 hours ago, Trevor said:

I have heard the debate for alternative fuel sources to environmentally power the motor car for about 35 years now and guess what?  It's still no closer to where it was all that time ago.

Years ago we had LPG as a contender which in reality is not too bad as it is a very clean burning fuel....incidentally, the manufacturers and researchers are discussing the use of Range Extenders which could be powered by LPG...so full circle I think.

Full electromotive power....I think not, where's the electricity coming from. In the UK, not a chance! In the Nordic countries who are completely set up with producing electricity from Wind, Wave, Solar, etc....yes it can work.

Diesel....the manufacturers have now designed the new Euro 6 range of engines and exhaust after-treatment to become as eco-friendly as a petrol engine (almost) and this has cleaned the 'dirty diesels' act up for the remaining future of this power source.

Petrol, no problem....unless it's running badly or on open loop on start up but generally very efficient. Incidentally, the most efficient petrol engine is a race engine as it combusts to produce maximum power and extract full calorific content of the fuel leaving very little emissions.

Hybrid....now you're talking!  probably the most efficient power source for a motor car. However, the manufacturers are now dropping their hybrid programme systematically to go to full plugin Electric Vehicles. Why???

Hydrogen...not while there are oil fields out there providing oil for refining and running power stations. Sad but true!

Attended a lecture by one of the Directors of BMW and he stated that their petrol and diesel engines would run into the next 10-12 years with no need to switch to EV. He also stated that autonomous cars will not ever likely be run in most countries unless there is a completely new build city to factor this in. Although they are producing full EV vehicles and supporting infrastructure for charging, it is still a problem with charge range, although this is also improving over time.

So, watch this space....meanwhile, I'll still enjoy both Petrol and Diesel until they take them from my cold dead hand 

LPG wasn't ever taken seriously, as only a couple of manufacturers ever offered it. The rest, probably because of lack of govt subsidies, never invested or developed the fuel system. LPG systems were (and probably still are) in effect as unrefined as a carburettor just dumping buckets of fuel into a modern engine fitted with multi-point refined fuel injection, which was proven by one of our Range Rovers with LPG which blew it's air filter box apart with the force of the backfire.

 

When working for a fleet company, Ford UK told me that there was no LPG conversion system (including revised cylinder head), yet my colleague was able to obtain a genuine one through Ford in Scandinavia (as it was offered as an option out there).

 

Most manufacturers official response to the question around warranty on vehicle being fired with LPG was a flat "no, your warranty will be null & void".

 

The best response was from either Toyota or VAG (afraid I can't remember which one!), which the letter back to me stated "your warranty will remain valid only if you fit a manufacturer-approved system", which made me think a bit more positive until I called my contact and asked the question of how many systems were approved, to which they said "erm, none".

 

 

[Beezil]

Oh, and electric isn't viable, because as it stands our national power grid is barely keeping up with regular demand, so can someone explain where the hell the energy will come from once we even get to 10% of vehicles using it?