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Audi A5 B9 Particulate Trap Bank 1 - P2002 00 [101] - Efficiency Below Threshold


jdragon
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Car is running fine (perhaps MPGs have dropped a little) but the P2002 00 fault code keeps coming back.

After some more research it would seem I've missed a potential (G450 EGR or G451 DPF) sensor issue. These are usually indicated by the relevant fault code, but not always.

I measured as follows from cold start:

Engine off:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 0.0 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1006.0 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1006.0 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 0 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 1 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value -4.2 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value -2.8 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation 0.00 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Idle:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 3.6 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1013.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1013.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 12 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 12 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 6.7 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 8.1 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -9.04 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~2000 RPM:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 16.2 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1032.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1032.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 26 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 26 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 30.1 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 31.4 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -11.28 %

IDE07750 and IDE07751 went up to ~50 hPa at the same RPM if that has any relevance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The behaviour appears to be typical i.e. the pressure increases with RPM.

I've probably measured some useless bocks there too 😄

From what I have understand, the DPF sensor offset value shouldn't be 0 hPa, is that correct?

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6 hours ago, jdragon said:

Car is running fine (perhaps MPGs have dropped a little) but the P2002 00 fault code keeps coming back.

After some more research it would seem I've missed a potential (G450 EGR or G451 DPF) sensor issue. These are usually indicated by the relevant fault code, but not always.

I measured as follows from cold start:

Engine off:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 0.0 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1006.0 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1006.0 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 0 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 1 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value -4.2 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value -2.8 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation 0.00 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Idle:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 3.6 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1013.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1013.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 12 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 12 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 6.7 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 8.1 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -9.04 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~2000 RPM:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 16.2 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1032.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1032.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 26 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 26 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 30.1 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 31.4 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -11.28 %

IDE07750 and IDE07751 went up to ~50 hPa at the same RPM if that has any relevance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The behaviour appears to be typical i.e. the pressure increases with RPM.

I've probably measured some useless bocks there too 😄

From what I have understand, the DPF sensor offset value shouldn't be 0 hPa, is that correct?

Hi it sounds like the DPF pressure sensor is on its way out, I have had one apart and they are very simple as they contain a plastic membrane and a PCB which measures the pressure on both sides of the membrane then transmits the information to the ECU, the membrane deteriorates as it is operating with hot air and once it becomes brittle will give false readings, the good news is that both sensors are on top of the engine the MAP is on the right hand rear of the engine and has one feed pipe the DPF sensor is on the left  and obviously has two pipes they are both relatively inexpensive and the part numbers are clearly marked, both will need adaptation to work properly.

Steve. 

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On 5/12/2022 at 12:49 PM, jdragon said:

Car is running fine (perhaps MPGs have dropped a little) but the P2002 00 fault code keeps coming back.

After some more research it would seem I've missed a potential (G450 EGR or G451 DPF) sensor issue. These are usually indicated by the relevant fault code, but not always.

I measured as follows from cold start:

Engine off:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 0.0 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1006.0 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1006.0 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 0 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 1 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value -4.2 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value -2.8 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation 0.00 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Idle:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 3.6 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1013.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1013.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 12 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 12 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 6.7 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 8.1 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -9.04 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

~2000 RPM:

IDE07084 Differential pressure ratio: low-pressure EGR 16.2 kg/h
IDE07086 Exhaust mass flow of low-pressure EGR: calculated 1.317
IDE07378 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - specified value 1032.3 hPa
IDE07385 Exhaust flap actuator 1: B1: inlet pressure - actual value calculated 1032.3 hPa
IDE07744 Particle filter: air pressure sensor 1 bank 1: raw value 26 hPa
IDE07745 Particl.filt.: different.press.sensor 1 bank 1: adaptat. value 26 hPa
IDE07747 Par.fil: diff.pr.sens.1 bank 1: offset 0 hPa
IDE07750 Exhaust recirculat.2: different.press.sens.1 bank 1: raw value 30.1 hPa
IDE07751 Exh.recircul. 2: differential pres.sensor 1 bank 1: adap. value 31.4 hPa
IDE07754 Exhaust recirculation valve 1 bank 1: activation -11.28 %

IDE07750 and IDE07751 went up to ~50 hPa at the same RPM if that has any relevance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The behaviour appears to be typical i.e. the pressure increases with RPM.

I've probably measured some useless bocks there too 😄

From what I have understand, the DPF sensor offset value shouldn't be 0 hPa, is that correct?

Hi I think I have found your problem, spoken to a rather drunk Audi tech last night who explained that its probably the EGR cooler beginning to block up as that will make the ECU think its the DPF blocking, the cooler can be found hanging out of the back of the DPF under the turbo, Audi issued a TSB to the dealers about this a while ago as it was becoming a frequent problem.

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15 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi I think I have found your problem, spoken to a rather drunk Audi tech last night who explained that its probably the EGR cooler beginning to block up as that will make the ECU think its the DPF blocking, the cooler can be found hanging out of the back of the DPF under the turbo, Audi issued a TSB to the dealers about this a while ago as it was becoming a frequent problem.

Hi Steve, thank you for considering this, and for the feedback.

Was is TPI_2050077-7 posted on Apr 27th? I enquired about the EGR cooler with a VAG specialist I've taken the cars to for around 8 years (to get a feel for the "what if") and they said it's a 6 hour job totaling ~£900 with a new EGR valve and cooler assembly.

Cleaning is a possibility but they didn't recommend it because most of the cost is labour.

They also recommended changing the sensors for the reasons you suggested, as the overall cost is insignificant. And the quality of AdBlue can attribute to this greatly.

Definitely not on the same level as the A4 ha. It wouldn't be my luck for it to come down to the sensor.

I had the MIL come on the dash, so I've raised it with the warranty company and will see how it goes.

Given these engines can do in excess of 300k if serviced, the recirculation system is a disaster.

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22 hours ago, jdragon said:

Hi Steve, thank you for considering this, and for the feedback.

Was is TPI_2050077-7 posted on Apr 27th? I enquired about the EGR cooler with a VAG specialist I've taken the cars to for around 8 years (to get a feel for the "what if") and they said it's a 6 hour job totaling ~£900 with a new EGR valve and cooler assembly.

Cleaning is a possibility but they didn't recommend it because most of the cost is labour.

They also recommended changing the sensors for the reasons you suggested, as the overall cost is insignificant. And the quality of AdBlue can attribute to this greatly.

Definitely not on the same level as the A4 ha. It wouldn't be my luck for it to come down to the sensor.

I had the MIL come on the dash, so I've raised it with the warranty company and will see how it goes.

Given these engines can do in excess of 300k if serviced, the recirculation system is a disaster.

Hi the worst of it is they have TWO EGRs one below the cat and one on the inlet manifold, I wonder what brain dead moron thought that one up, if its any consolation what you have been quoted is pretty cheap considering Audi want over two grand.

Steve.

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I didn't know there are two. Have just looked through the workshop manual:

Exhaust gas recirculation valve 1 -GX5- (high pressure side) V339

- Exhaust gas recirculation valve 2 -GX6- (low pressure side) V338

Might have to see what they say about cleaning the V339 😃

The garage is very good; founded by master techs, and they will work with you to get the right solution. The Audi dealership up the road from them has been known to send in cars when they are over capacity.

I've tried, as always, to be pragmatic with this fault but as I said in another post; sometimes there are things best left to the pros 😎

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58 minutes ago, jdragon said:

Or better still:

Audi A5 B9 Particulate Trap Bank 1 - P2002 00 [101] - Efficiency Below Threshold

Hi sounds perfect and as the tech explained the TSB was issued to stem the tidal wave of new DPF units being fitted under warranty and in a lot of cases not curing the problem as they put the old cooler back in, brain dead or what, why would you not replace the whole thing in view of the fact that the cooler and new valve probably cost them around £100 when buying in bulk, the more I get into Audi the more like Ford they become and believe me I have had more than enough run ins with them over the years.

Steve.

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It's insane! I'd take the CAGA lump from my A4 in the A5 any day 😀

My driving pattern is optimum, but what's not clear to me now is how much benefit the Archoil and will have on keeping the recirculation system in a better state, to prolong the life of the cooler once it has been changed.

Having to change it again after another 70k miles wouldn't be the end of the world, but it's far from ideal.

 

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1 hour ago, jdragon said:

It's insane! I'd take the CAGA lump from my A4 in the A5 any day 😀

My driving pattern is optimum, but what's not clear to me now is how much benefit the Archoil and will have on keeping the recirculation system in a better state, to prolong the life of the cooler once it has been changed.

Having to change it again after another 70k miles wouldn't be the end of the world, but it's far from ideal.

 

Hi I can vouch for the Archoil the tech told me the cooler will need changing every 80k, my engine is the same as yours and has covered just over 120k using this stuff so something in it definitely works, still its a matter of personal preference, maybe I am lucky or just been ahead of the game as I started using it at 40k when I bought the car, any thing that makes the fuel burn more efficiently is good the only fly in the ointment is the PCV system that supplies plenty of oil vapour for the soot to stick to inside the EGR system thats the Gary Glitter of the whole process it interferes with the whole system especially with direct injection as there is no cleaning effect from the incoming charge on the valves.

Steve.

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I've just emptied a full tank treated with Archoil, so will continue to use.

Alternatively, we just need a redneck insitu EGR cooler cleaning method to blast the crap out of it 😄

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22 hours ago, jdragon said:

I've just emptied a full tank treated with Archoil, so will continue to use.

Alternatively, we just need a redneck insitu EGR cooler cleaning method to blast the crap out of it 😄

Hi if you want the Redneck solution try a gallon of paint thinners the lunatic AKA Scotty Kilmer on youtube absolutely loves it and Hates Audis, maybe its his secret plan to rid the U.S. of the brand, the design of the EGR system is to say the least peculiar but I have no doubt Mrs Merkel and co were obviously euphoric when they came up with this little number, at least BMW had the sense to put the cooler on the side of the engine at the top so at least us have a go brigade were in with a chance, Audis propensity for over engineering is breathtaking, Scotty on the other hand just keeps churning out videos on how to kill your car and the walking dead love him for it.

Steve.

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  • 1 month later...

Quick update:

Car is booked in to have the EGR Valve and Cooler replaced. I'll get some photos of the old parts, and do a quick summary of my experience and learning when it's done.

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  • 4 weeks later...

This P2002 00 code (as far as I can tell) was first logged on Oct-27 2021 at 69669 miles according to the scan I had done when I purchased the car in March with not many more on the clock

The MIL first came on in April at approx. 61k miles, and again in May at just over 72k miles

From that point it came on every 170-200 miles so I was clearing it each week

There was the familiar white smoke deposited on the exhaust pipe, which became much more noticeable after the MIL light came on for the first time

I had both the EGR valve and cooler replaced a few days ago at just under 75k miles as indicated by TPI 2050077/7

My new EGR valve was not adapted

So just to clarify there is no need to consider your DPF for this code as I did initially, however before you rush in to having the parts replaced, check your G450 sensor voltages because it could be that at a cost of around £80

The warranty company requested photos, so I kept the parts and have uploaded them here

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread, and my learning - I hope someone else finds it useful

 

20220727_193124.jpg

20220727_193228.jpg

20220727_193312.jpg

20220727_193320.jpg

20220727_193419.jpg

V339_low pressure.pdf

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21 hours ago, jdragon said:

This P2002 00 code (as far as I can tell) was first logged on Oct-27 2021 at 69669 miles according to the scan I had done when I purchased the car in March with not many more on the clock

The MIL first came on in April at approx. 61k miles, and again in May at just over 72k miles

From that point it came on every 170-200 miles so I was clearing it each week

There was the familiar white smoke deposited on the exhaust pipe, which became much more noticeable after the MIL light came on for the first time

I had both the EGR valve and cooler replaced a few days ago at just under 75k miles as indicated by TPI 2050077/7

My new EGR valve was not adapted

So just to clarify there is no need to consider your DPF for this code as I did initially, however before you rush in to having the parts replaced, check your G450 sensor voltages because it could be that at a cost of around £80

The warranty company requested photos, so I kept the parts and have uploaded them here

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread, and my learning - I hope someone else finds it useful

 

20220727_193124.jpg

20220727_193228.jpg

20220727_193312.jpg

20220727_193320.jpg

20220727_193419.jpg

V339_low pressure.pdf 1.27 MB · 0 downloads

Hi no need to worry about the DPF as that will carry on regenerating as normal, your parts removed are exactly the same as mine were and if you look at my post with the pictures of the cooler after I cut it in half you will see the crystallised Adblue has invaded the coolant area around the gas tubes, I also had a small amount of crystals in the expansion tank, this is not ideal and means the gas tubes running through the cooler have been compromised and are letting the Adblue steam and crystals into the water jacket but being as the coolant is heavier this tends to push the other way causing the syrup like substance in your pictures, the main problem with this cooler is the cooling length is to short and unlike most other designs used on older engine set ups which have a lot more narrow O.D. set ups but longer cooling runs our shorter larger coolers will always promote corrosion of the cooling tubes because of the heat involved being mounted so close to the DPF core allied to the fact Adblue rots all base metals, most other manufacturers mount the coolers on the outer fringes of the engine block where the ambient temperature in the engine bay helps cooling.

Steve.

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  • 8 months later...

Hi I have the Audi A5 2L Tdi ultra, with exact same fault code. Does anyone know if mapping out/ blanking the EGR valve/cooler will also resolve this issue? 

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4 hours ago, AlanF said:

Hi I have the Audi A5 2L Tdi ultra, with exact same fault code. Does anyone know if mapping out/ blanking the EGR valve/cooler will also resolve this issue? 

Hi you can't have it mapped out individually so as there are two EGR valves the one on the cooler thats inside the DPF and another high pressure valve on the intake manifold, if you can find someone that can map out both thats fine except for the higher exhaust temperature will then start to kill the Turbo, you can't blank the low pressure cooler because its actually inside the DPF and even if you took it out and blocked all the cooling tubes you would be left with a permanent EML as it thinks its still blocked, its easier to buy a new cooler,NOT FROM AUDI, at £400 + just for the cooler £750+ for the valve and cooler which whatever dealer you speak to they claim the cooler and valve come as a set, I have just had to buy another cooler as the one I fitted now has 65k on it my A6 is a cab and the lights beginning to pop up randomly but I did some research and bought an NRF unit from parts in motion on eBay  £256, the oe part number is 04L 131 512.

Steve.

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Thanks Steve apreciate that. Didn’t realise there were 2 egr valves on this car, this is not a job I’d want to do myself tbh and I was told it could be £600 in labour. Does this sound correct to you? What would the consequences be of doing nothing as the car is driving perfectly. I realise that there will obviously be long term issues but just wondering what they would be? Thanks 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi all, 

I've just purchased a 2017 A5 with the 2L TDI and I have this same code showing on OBD11. I have got a 3 month warranty but no EML yet. Is there anything I can try before it does come on?

Thanks, Jordan 

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3 hours ago, jordanmc321 said:

Hi all, 

I've just purchased a 2017 A5 with the 2L TDI and I have this same code showing on OBD11. I have got a 3 month warranty but no EML yet. Is there anything I can try before it does come on?

Thanks, Jordan 

Hi yes do not delete the code and go to them and lie through your teeth say the light has been on a couple of times, normally the light comes on and stays on because its so blocked with adblue crystals, its crap design the last one I saw fitted was down at my local garage, I took the old unit to the sink and ran it under hot tap nothing flowing through the holes at first then a sudden gush of water and it was pretty much clear except for some carboned up tubes it was probably 75% clear so that would lead you to believe that the main problem is the crystals of adblue and replacement is the only real option.

Steve.

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9 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi yes do not delete the code and go to them and lie through your teeth say the light has been on a couple of times, normally the light comes on and stays on because its so blocked with adblue crystals, its crap design the last one I saw fitted was down at my local garage, I took the old unit to the sink and ran it under hot tap nothing flowing through the holes at first then a sudden gush of water and it was pretty much clear except for some carboned up tubes it was probably 75% clear so that would lead you to believe that the main problem is the crystals of adblue and replacement is the only real option.

Steve.

Thank you for your reply Steve, I put in some DPF cleaner yesterday and then some fuel (not a full tank) and within minutes it had started doing a regen. Not sure if it was just a coincidence but I kept it running until it finished and these were the numbers.

Measured = -6.24g

Calculated = 5.26g

Oil ash mass = 34.46...

I then cleared the code and so far this morning it hasn't come back on but if it does I'll get in touch with the company and leave the code there. 

 

Thanks, Jordan 

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11 hours ago, jordanmc321 said:

Thank you for your reply Steve, I put in some DPF cleaner yesterday and then some fuel (not a full tank) and within minutes it had started doing a regen. Not sure if it was just a coincidence but I kept it running until it finished and these were the numbers.

Measured = -6.24g

Calculated = 5.26g

Oil ash mass = 34.46...

I then cleared the code and so far this morning it hasn't come back on but if it does I'll get in touch with the company and leave the code there. 

 

Thanks, Jordan 

Hi the natural regeneration process is not affected by the low pressure cooler being blocked and will carry on regardless of this I assumed that the EGR cleaner when mine was going would keep it clear in the end I was using a bottle every week but unfortunately the outcome was the same, replacement as the cooler had rotted out and was feeding water into the tubes which resulted in water loss and the tailpipes going white.

Steve.

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