23 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Sorry it's been a while. The A6 is booked in into a garage for engine work in July. So that gives me time to get the bits sorted. So today, my mate and I attacked the rear end. I'm aiming to replace the rear axle, brakes, suspension.

One of the rear springs had snapped and the car fought us all the way. We're struggling to get the calipers off as the bolts seem seized. This has stopped us progressing further.

Handbrake was seized one side.

Both spring rubber caps are perished and split.

Ive decided on going with eibach pro kit springs which are as close as I can get to the original sport springs (both originals and eibach ones are the same 30mm).

Trying to decide on whether I go for bilstein b6 or b8 shocks.

Currently trying to find a new/refurbished axle as I'm trying to prevent the situation like on this Passat. Does anyone know the passat axle and A6 2wd axle are the same?

I've contented I'm axles and another supplier of Passat b5 axes but they haven't got back to me.

I'm going to fit powerflex bushes to the axle where it mounts to the car.

Then going to sort he brakes out but I'm planning to do brakes last so that new discs aren't sitting not being used.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Steve B6 shocks as B8s are far to stiff and allied to the poly bushed subframe will be like driving over a permanent cattle grid, never mind dish washing the header tank just buy a new one you will be amazed how far plastic technology has come on since the early two thousands, just bought a new tank for my daughters GLA, dealer price over £80 partsinmotion £35, look at the casting numbers and they are the same.

Steve.

1 hour ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi Steve B6 shocks as B8s are far to stiff and allied to the poly bushed subframe will be like driving over a permanent cattle grid, never mind dish washing the header tank just buy a new one you will be amazed how far plastic technology has come on since the early two thousands, just bought a new tank for my daughters GLA, dealer price over £80 partsinmotion £35, look at the casting numbers and they are the same.

Steve.

Thanks so much Steve. I'll get b6 ones, unless you'd recommend koni? Are there any other springs you'd recommend?

Regarding Polly bushing, shall I just leave this? All the replacement brackets im finding come with standard bushes already. Would they be better, as I still want a decent ride without breaking my spine.

Struggling to find a supplier for a refurbished rear beam. My mate is coming on Thursday with power tools to try and get the calipers off.

Am I to correctly assume the beam/axle is hollow?

If so m worried it'll rust from the inside out. If it's not then would I be ok just to get mine powder coated/raptor painted?

11 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks so much Steve. I'll get b6 ones, unless you'd recommend koni? Are there any other springs you'd recommend?

Regarding Polly bushing, shall I just leave this? All the replacement brackets im finding come with standard bushes already. Would they be better, as I still want a decent ride without breaking my spine.

Struggling to find a supplier for a refurbished rear beam. My mate is coming on Thursday with power tools to try and get the calipers off.

Am I to correctly assume the beam/axle is hollow?

If so m worried it'll rust from the inside out. If it's not then would I be ok just to get mine powder coated/raptor painted?

Hi the B6 is about the best compromise as they work with either conventional ride hight or factory lowered just remember to release the piston from its transport strap and push it all the way down and let it return at least six times to prime the monotube system as these work differently from twin tube, yes the rear sub frame has voids but you can get around this by using a product called Bilt Hamber, they do a range of rust removal and rust proofing, it ain't cheap but its top notch, my friend did his 1981 Porsche 911 with it a few years ago and it definitely works, with regard to the bushes poly is easier to fit but gives more road resonance when fitted and will take at least two years to calm down and bed in to an acceptable level, a very wise engineer I met that looked after racing cars at Snetterton once told me if you want good handling on a road car use standard heavy duty springs and stiffer shocks and a good branded rubber bush, if you get a new frame just change the bushes for peace of mind and bare in mind how long the originals last, use Meyle or Lemforder, if your mate is bringing power tools for the brakes tell him to not use them until you have the bolt moving which requires a blowtorch and plenty of plus gas anti seize and patience as these threads will ring out given half a chance, if you consider the amount of heat a calliper works with you can't realistically overheat them, once off I would replace the units anyway in view of the fact that 90% of callipers are refurbished even the dealer units. and bolt wise invest in a Sealy Wall Drive sockets as that system will never round the the bolts off as it grips the flat sided bit of the bolt.

Steve.

Hello Steve,

Thank you for the advice on the b6 shocks it's greatly appreciated.

I'll look into bilt hamber. The only refurbed ones I can find are in Poland. Without sounding thick how would you paint/protect the inside?

Should I then go raptor paint (or similar) or powder coating the axle?

Thank you, Audi did do heavy duty springs but I've never seen any for sale new or used. I'd be torn between them and the sport suspension. The latter is what was on the car from new.

The brackets im finding that mount from.axle to body all come ready with the bush installed. Would you recommend fit the standard one or pollybush?

Thank you for the advice on bushes, funny you mentioned meyle as that's the brand I was planning to use for the whole front suspension arm set.

Oo I hadn't thought of a blow torch for he brakes. The bolts are on tight, we couldn't undo them! We were going to use power tools, but I am worried.

Thanks again for your help.

Heat, PlusGas, and an air hammer (with compressor) if your budget can stretch. For caliper bolts, access to use an extension bar is by far the best solution to get leverage. On the fronts they are probably 18mm bolts, and the rear, I think 8mm Allen hex bolts. Invariably corroded. Wire brush first. Then hammer in Allen bit on a 1/2” drive. That’s where I would use the air hammer first to shock it, then the breaker bar. I’ve even used another car jack to raise the extension bar given vehicle is on the ground, apart from being jacked up.

On older cars, especially suspension, then you’re going to come across seized bolts. If any of the parts are aluminium, then you’ll get oxide corrosion on steel bolt threads. That’s why the infamous pinch bolt on the front strut on VAG cars was such a pain. Of course they make one-trick ponies such as the Klann tool, but you can also get opposite end and use Laser which can be as effective.

Meyle suspension components are good. Normally 2 year warranty. Meyle HD (heavy duty) is 4 years. Lemforder is OE.

If you’re looking for spring set ups, as Audi, in fact VAG would have multiple combinations, check out LLL parts to get a part number, to see if heavy duty ones can still be sourced. Existing springs will be colour coded with paint dots.

Not sure if your 2002 A6 is Quattro, but details here on heavy duty springs. Cross reference with engine code. https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/A6Q/264/5/511/511016

Front wheel drive version here for 4/6 cylinder cars. https://www.lllparts.co.uk/catalogs/audi/RDW/A6/264/5/511/511012

Thanks Richard, we've struggled with a breaker bar due to height limitations. Will hammer the Allen bit in. Certainly coming across a fair bit of seized bolts etc 🤦‍♂️ I guess it doesn't help I'm a novice! Even though my friend is experienced and done mechanicing before.

Not even looked at the process for the front yet but that's next 😬

Thank you for the link mine is 2wd. I notice on the link there's different pricing for heavy duty suspension £125 when I click on this it mentions skoda Vs £163 which mentions seat. How do I know which one is best?

Would you advise heavy duty or sports suspension? It had sports suspension when new? How will.it handle with heavy duty springs?

Heavy duty as name suggests will handle weight better. Are you towing for example, are you planning to carry heavy weights? Sport is stiffer than standard when negotiating bends, less body roll. It might even have an uprated rear ARB. Call me old school, I’d probably keep it original on sports, and keep rubber bushes too instead of going down poly bush route.

Regards getting clearance to use breaker bar. Get a decent trolley jack such as 2.5 tonne low profile one. Costco usually have ones at reasonable price and quality is good. Also invest in deep slot jack pads to protect the sills. Once you’re comfortable with height on one side, get an axle stand in. Then do the other side. Now return to the side you’re working on, you can still afford to go up a little in height, as long as axle stand extends. Front wheels must be securely chocked. Same with other side. Throw in another trolley jack and the road wheels for good measure.

You’ll find this should give you the right height, to break the tension. As suggested, I’ve even used a small Halfords 1.5-tonne trolley jack to lift the breaker bar if space is tight. Socket needs to be hammered on, and no lateral flex on the breaker bar.

Thank you, I contacted LLL and they don't have the specific heavy duty ones for my A6.

I thought about heavy duty as the car has he tow package and 7 seater option which both adds weight. Plus the area I live has terrible pot holes and speed humps.

Happy to go with the sports option though as it's more original.

Thank you for the walk through on the breaker bar. Hoping to get it off tomorrow.

18 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Hello Steve,

Thank you for the advice on the b6 shocks it's greatly appreciated.

I'll look into bilt hamber. The only refurbed ones I can find are in Poland. Without sounding thick how would you paint/protect the inside?

Should I then go raptor paint (or similar) or powder coating the axle?

Thank you, Audi did do heavy duty springs but I've never seen any for sale new or used. I'd be torn between them and the sport suspension. The latter is what was on the car from new.

The brackets im finding that mount from.axle to body all come ready with the bush installed. Would you recommend fit the standard one or pollybush?

Thank you for the advice on bushes, funny you mentioned meyle as that's the brand I was planning to use for the whole front suspension arm set.

Oo I hadn't thought of a blow torch for he brakes. The bolts are on tight, we couldn't undo them! We were going to use power tools, but I am worried.

Thanks again for your help.

Hi paint the subframe as powder coating won't stick properly to any pits in the metal most rust proof paints are flexible and don't mind the odd rough patch, regard to the void rustproofing buy some nylon bungs around 6mm and drill holes where you can't get in and a good rust proofing kit for sills etc have a plastic hose with a spray end, push that into the hole as far as you can and spray whilst gently pulling the hose out, most inner void sprays work on capillary action and the mist from the spray coats pretty much everything, I know people don't like Waxoyl but used properly it is brilliant and once the plastic bungs are pushed home in the pilot holes its all moisture proof.

Steve.

20 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi paint the subframe as powder coating won't stick properly to any pits in the metal most rust proof paints are flexible and don't mind the odd rough patch, regard to the void rustproofing buy some nylon bungs around 6mm and drill holes where you can't get in and a good rust proofing kit for sills etc have a plastic hose with a spray end, push that into the hole as far as you can and spray whilst gently pulling the hose out, most inner void sprays work on capillary action and the mist from the spray coats pretty much everything, I know people don't like Waxoyl but used properly it is brilliant and once the plastic bungs are pushed home in the pilot holes its all moisture proof.

Steve.

Thanks so much Steve,

Will do this. Would you recommend raptor paint or a different paint after using built hamber.

Tonights progress. Axle is out! (I've stupidly not measured it though for where it fits so I've made my life difficult when refitting 😬

Still got to get the calipers off but this will be easier now it's off the car. Axle sems in good condition so revamping the original is the best course of action I think.

Axle bushes are shot as per pics. I'm thinking getting Lemforder ones, but I'd appreciate your input. Id be changing the bracket and bush as brackets show signs of damage. I believe the bolts are stretch bolts, can anyone confirm this?

I'm debating whether to powder coat or use rustoleum or similar, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Please can anyone tell me where to source the axle clips for the brake lines etc?

Also looking at the bilstein b6 iit says it's for standard height, is that going to be a problem with the eibach 300mm springs?

Would koni shocks be better?

Thank you all for your input so far its greatly appreciated 🙂

22 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Tonights progress. Axle is out! (I've stupidly not measured it though for where it fits so I've made my life difficult when refitting 😬

Still got to get the calipers off but this will be easier now it's off the car. Axle sems in good condition so revamping the original is the best course of action I think.

Axle bushes are shot as per pics. I'm thinking getting Lemforder ones, but I'd appreciate your input. Id be changing the bracket and bush as brackets show signs of damage. I believe the bolts are stretch bolts, can anyone confirm this?

I'm debating whether to powder coat or use rustoleum or similar, I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Please can anyone tell me where to source the axle clips for the brake lines etc?

Also looking at the bilstein b6 iit says it's for standard height, is that going to be a problem with the eibach 300mm springs?

Would koni shocks be better?

Thank you all for your input so far its greatly appreciated 🙂

Hi clan the axle and use a good quality marine grade black, the bolts are stretch and new is recommended, the B6 if you read the write up is suitable for standard or factory lowered set ups because the rebound cushion is built into the bottom of the unit, to quote Sparticus Lemforder are OE,

Steve.

5 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi clan the axle and use a good quality marine grade black, the bolts are stretch and new is recommended, the B6 if you read the write up is suitable for standard or factory lowered set ups because the rebound cushion is built into the bottom of the unit, to quote Sparticus Lemforder are OE,

Steve.

Thanks Steve,

Trying to find stretch bolts now.

That's good then, if you think the b6 will work with the 30mm drop with eibach. My worry is that the car would scrape on sports suspension which is a 20mm drop so dropping it later I crease further risk of damage.

I guess the alternative is to do away with sports suspension and buy standard suspension instead to increase ride height to negotiate speed humps and rough roads.

Or do I just get the eibach and bilsteins for the improvement but then fit raisers like this:

SekSuspension

Audi A6 C5 Suspension Lift Kit

Polyurethane strut spacers. Leveling kit for Audi A6 C5 1997 -2004 2th generation. Raise the height of the car 20mm 30mm 40mm. Installation Hardware Included.

Again I'd appreciate your thoughts on that. I know I'm going round the houses with making a decision but I want it to be right.

If it makes any difference the A6 has the 3rd row seats in the boot and tow bar.

Lemforder is what I'll order too 🙂

Got to get the calipers and hubs off. I'm considering bigger brakes if I can find any tat fit from other Audi models preferably.

20 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks Steve,

Trying to find stretch bolts now.

That's good then, if you think the b6 will work with the 30mm drop with eibach. My worry is that the car would scrape on sports suspension which is a 20mm drop so dropping it later I crease further risk of damage.

I guess the alternative is to do away with sports suspension and buy standard suspension instead to increase ride height to negotiate speed humps and rough roads.

Or do I just get the eibach and bilsteins for the improvement but then fit raisers like this:

SekSuspension

Audi A6 C5 Suspension Lift Kit

Polyurethane strut spacers. Leveling kit for Audi A6 C5 1997 -2004 2th generation. Raise the height of the car 20mm 30mm 40mm. Installation Hardware Included.

Again I'd appreciate your thoughts on that. I know I'm going round the houses with making a decision but I want it to be right.

If it makes any difference the A6 has the 3rd row seats in the boot and tow bar.

Lemforder is what I'll order too 🙂

Got to get the calipers and hubs off. I'm considering bigger brakes if I can find any tat fit from other Audi models preferably.

Hi just use standard springs and the B6 shocks the outcome will be the same better handling without ground clearance issues, with regard to the brakes why bigger?, if you use standard discs that are high carbon ATE, MEYLE, they will be more than adequate especially if you use Comma ESP4 fluid and Delphi or Brembo pads, I use the same on my cab and believe me with the milage I do they stop every time and with regular fluid changes I get loads of miles out of my brakes, it works, your braking system was designed to meet every possible contingency of highway driving unless you decide to track day the car, I went through this with my Titanium X Sport Mondeo Estate and what I have described works, as soon as you start introducing spacing hardware you create different geometry problems and with regard to the bolts see if you can get stainless replacements all problems solved.

Steve.

3 hours ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi just use standard springs and the B6 shocks the outcome will be the same better handling without ground clearance issues, with regard to the brakes why bigger?, if you use standard discs that are high carbon ATE, MEYLE, they will be more than adequate especially if you use Comma ESP4 fluid and Delphi or Brembo pads, I use the same on my cab and believe me with the milage I do they stop every time and with regular fluid changes I get loads of miles out of my brakes, it works, your braking system was designed to meet every possible contingency of highway driving unless you decide to track day the car, I went through this with my Titanium X Sport Mondeo Estate and what I have described works, as soon as you start introducing spacing hardware you create different geometry problems and with regard to the bolts see if you can get stainless replacements all problems solved.

Steve.

Thanks Steve,

So do away with the sport suspension (minus the b6 shocks) to raise ride height. As stock suspension was sport.

I was thinking just improved brake performance. As I'm planning to change calipers etc anyway.

Sorry for all the questions just trying to consider all options.

19 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks Steve,

So do away with the sport suspension (minus the b6 shocks) to raise ride height. As stock suspension was sport.

I was thinking just improved brake performance. As I'm planning to change calipers etc anyway.

Sorry for all the questions just trying to consider all options.

Hi yes you don't need stiffer springs as the B6s will effectively cope by making the spring compression much smoother and more progressive, you can use the sport springs with good effect as factory lowered is just under 25mm try Kilen springs as these are cold manufactured and very robust and won't break the bank. brakes the bigger the better is not quite true for the rears as they only even in emergency conditions receive a lower amount of pressure than the fronts which you may want to use bigger everything but I can't see the point when good quality standard discs and pads do the job, example, I was watching a police documentary with a car chase over thirty odd miles at speeds of over seventy miles per hour through country roads, eventually the officer had to pull over as his o/s front pads were smoking but his car still stopped, then ask yourself the question am I going to be doing that a lot?, good quality fluid pads and discs will do the job.

Steve.

Thanks Steve, I'll look at kilen springs for sports option. Auto doc only had the eibach pro kit as the alternative option for sports springs.

From all accounts most sports suspension for the c5 is now obsolete. As well as the heavy duty springs. I did ask lll but they said he heavy duty ones are out of stock for my model.

I know I keep discussing various options but I just want the car to be right. Especially as we e got lots of potholes and speed humps locally. Plus there's the extra weight of the 3rd row seats and tow pack.

Just to add, I've researched kilen springs and found this:

https://ebay.us/m/2ZykT0

They have the same number as sach? Are they the same company?

https://www.ukpassats.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=86870

The other option is bilstein b3 springs or will they be more firm and not as good as the kilens?

Kilens are £20 cheaper for the pair compared to bilstein b3s.

Very true.

19 hours ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks Steve, I'll look at kilen springs for sports option. Auto doc only had the eibach pro kit as the alternative option for sports springs.

From all accounts most sports suspension for the c5 is now obsolete. As well as the heavy duty springs. I did ask lll but they said he heavy duty ones are out of stock for my model.

I know I keep discussing various options but I just want the car to be right. Especially as we e got lots of potholes and speed humps locally. Plus there's the extra weight of the 3rd row seats and tow pack.

Just to add, I've researched kilen springs and found this:

https://ebay.us/m/2ZykT0

They have the same number as sach? Are they the same company?

https://www.ukpassats.co.uk/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=86870

The other option is bilstein b3 springs or will they be more firm and not as good as the kilens?

Kilens are £20 cheaper for the pair compared to bilstein b3s.

Very true.

Hi only ever suggest parts I have used to good effect and trust, the Kilen springs I have used on a few vehicles and never had a wrong un, its the same as when I had to buy a oil level sensor for the A6, Audi wanted over £160 but guess what I bought a Febi unit for £60 all in and found the casting numbers were the same as the oe unit and someone had ground the VAG logo off, upon checking it turns out Febi made them for Audi oe, therefore Kilen probably make springs for Sachs who badge engineer the packaging and charge more, its the way of the world, to remove any doubt your existing suspension was developed at full load and was designed to exceed that loading by at least 40%, the equation is if you use the same spec components with slightly stiffer shocks all will be perfect, believe me your area has not got a monopoly on holes and speed bumps.

Steve.

11 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi only ever suggest parts I have used to good effect and trust, the Kilen springs I have used on a few vehicles and never had a wrong un, its the same as when I had to buy a oil level sensor for the A6, Audi wanted over £160 but guess what I bought a Febi unit for £60 all in and found the casting numbers were the same as the oe unit and someone had ground the VAG logo off, upon checking it turns out Febi made them for Audi oe, therefore Kilen probably make springs for Sachs who badge engineer the packaging and charge more, its the way of the world, to remove any doubt your existing suspension was developed at full load and was designed to exceed that loading by at least 40%, the equation is if you use the same spec components with slightly stiffer shocks all will be perfect, believe me your area has not got a monopoly on holes and speed bumps.

Steve.

Thanks Steve,

I didn't know that about the 40% extra rule.

I'll get Kilen springs thank you for the recommendation. Would bilstein b4 shocks be better with these springs than b6?

True, I appreciate my area hasn't got a monopoly on speed humps etc.

10 minutes ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks Steve,

I didn't know that about the 40% extra rule.

I'll get Kilen springs thank you for the recommendation. Would bilstein b4 shocks be better with these springs than b6?

True, I appreciate my area hasn't got a monopoly on speed humps etc.

Hi the B6s although a different price are far and away better regarding durability and longevity as they use a monotone system rather than twin tube which as they get older will suffer with oil foaming under stress, example B4s are very good but on the Mondeo they clapped out after 70k, B6s lasted 120k and that was hard milage, got B4s on the Passat and they seem to be lasting well but I put that down to the Passat being very much lighter.

Steve.

13 minutes ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi the B6s although a different price are far and away better regarding durability and longevity as they use a monotone system rather than twin tube which as they get older will suffer with oil foaming under stress, example B4s are very good but on the Mondeo they clapped out after 70k, B6s lasted 120k and that was hard milage, got B4s on the Passat and they seem to be lasting well but I put that down to the Passat being very much lighter.

Steve.

Thanks Steve. Sorry to be a pain with all this. Currently getting bits ordered. Got 4x suspension caps (febi) and going to get the Kilen springs ordered once I've got confirmation from them regarding part numbers. As I've found a pair which a listed as heavy duty, auto doc says they don't fit but I think they will.

1 hour ago, Steve Q said:

Thanks Steve. Sorry to be a pain with all this. Currently getting bits ordered. Got 4x suspension caps (febi) and going to get the Kilen springs ordered once I've got confirmation from them regarding part numbers. As I've found a pair which a listed as heavy duty, auto doc says they don't fit but I think they will.

Hi usual rule of thumb if the part number adds up its probably right, I hate AI generated part match sites.

Steve.

1 hour ago, Stevey Y said:

Hi usual rule of thumb if the part number adds up its probably right, I hate AI generated part match sites.

Steve.

I know what you mean. I've emailed both. If I can get heavy duty I'm guessing you'd recommend that ?

18 hours ago, Steve Q said:

I know what you mean. I've emailed both. If I can get heavy duty I'm guessing you'd recommend that ?

Hi yes heavy duty means slightly thicker and a higher grade of steel so the deformation resistance is higher, add the B6s and you have the ideal durable set up that will take a while to bed in but the wait will be worth it, the 40% overload factor was standard when they built your car and throughout the industry in general, nowadays they probably don't bother and design the springs to snap when overloaded, gives them something to do.

Steve.

Thanks Steve I've emailed Kilen to confirm the heavy duty suspension springs fit my model. Fingers crossed they do 🤞 I'm finding that some bolts are now obsolete. I have the dimensions as per LLL parts, do you know anywhere that would sell them (generic bolt companies in thinking).

Thank you.